Libertarian pinup-boy Adam Kokesh (pictured above) posted this comment on the Freedom Feens Facebook page a couple of weeks ago, I just noticed it last night:
Here’s the backstory:
Adam posted the below video where he answered a letter from a man asking him “Can I be a sexual dominant and still be a libertarian?” Adam answered with such misguided, wrong and bigoted things that I wrote him a e-mail about it. In it it I told him “people who know nothing about lifestyle-BDSM and offer opinions about it remind me of people who know nothing about guns and offer opinions of guns.” I also offered Adam some suggested reading to expand his knowledge.
Adam never replied to my e-mail. If I’d been a female, he may have written back. I do know he often replies to women immediately. I did get an auto-responder e-mail that looked like it came from a corporation or a politician, some “Your thoughts are very important to us, and we’ll try to get back to you”:
I don’t get a chance to respond to every email that I get, but I dotry to read all of them and at least always skim them daily. Pleaseknow that I am doing my best to hear my audience, and appreciate allthe feedback.In liberty, Adam Kokesh
He never wrote back, so I figured he didn’t want to talk to me. I posted on my personal Facebook account to discuss it with my friends:
My personal Facebook account is “friends only”, and Adam and I have never added each other as Facebook “friends”, so he couldn’t see it. I’m assuming some mutual Facebook friend of ours told him about it. I wasn’t trying to hide it from him. I wasn’t doing anything different than when he or I or anyone criticizes some public figure but doesn’t add them as a Facebook friend.
The thread went on for a while longer than that, with a bunch of people posting similar comments. I did go on to call him “the frat boy of liberty”, but that’s it.
Many people regularly bash him way harder on the comment sections of his videos and he usually ignores it. I must have said something that hit home.
I like some of Adam’s stuff, particularly his video where he talks to the Marines guarding The Federal Reserve. I think overall he’s good for liberty, I just think he should stick to what he knows. And also avoid doing insipid crap like this. It’s infantile, and DOES make him come off as a frat boy. He can and has done so much better.
He should also quit being so fatist. He’s turning off potential fans, and possibly turning people off from liberty. His bashing of anyone who isn’t sculpted and ripped is part of why I called him “the frat boy of liberty.” And his responding to me with “Go fuck yourself” just reinforces that belief.
The FIRST THING he usually says about some bad cop is about the cop’s weight, not the cop’s ethics. I wonder if Adam was fat as a kid, or maybe a fat bully sat on him in the school yard.
Back to the BDSM thing, I hate when people give confident WRONG advice to people who look up to them. It’s dangerous. People who are smart, like Adam, often fall into this trap. They know so much about one area that they start to think they can answer any question about anything. And it especially bugs me when it’s about BDSM, which is greatly misunderstood. BDSM is treated today about like homosexuality was in the 1950s, and Adam prolonged a bunch of those wrong myths in his response to that man. If he’d done the same thing to a gay man, his audience would be gone, overnight.
I took Stefan Molyneux to task for this same stuff, 58 minutes into this interview, and he actually went and did some research by reading books I suggested, and he changed his tune, as you can hear 13:24 to 13:30 into this interview.
If Adam has the capacity to be that teachable, here’s the reading list I sent Stefan:
SM 101: A Realistic Introduction (Kindle Edition)
Jay Wiseman. Greenery Press, 1998.
The Loving Dominant (Kindle Edition)
John Warren, Ph.d. Greenery Press, 2000.
Diary of an S&M Romance (Paperback)
Dollie Llama and ThornDaddy (My wife and I).
PEEP! Press, 2006.
This book is our own personal journey. Included on our list not just because we wrote it, but because the book is respected in “the community.”
The Ethical Slut: A Guide to Infinite Sexual Possibilities (Paperback)
Dossie Easton, Catherine A. Liszt. Greenery Press, 1998
Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism (Paperback)
Philip Miller, Molly Devon. Mystic Rose Books, 1988.
When Someone You Love Is Kinky (Kindle Edition)
Dossie Easton, Catherine A. Liszt. Greenery Press, 2000.
I hope Adam gives some of this list a read. Because the day you stop being teachable is the day you become old. And we need Adam young and vibrant.
I never tried to cut Adam out of any conversation. And I’m inviting him to respond here. I’ll send him an e-mail with this link. And since he doesn’t seem to read my e-mails, I’m sure whoever told him about my conversation on my Facebook wall can tell him about this blog post. And this blog is not “friends only.” It’s open to all.
And to Adam, and anyone: everyone’s first comment here is held for moderation, so don’t think I’m blocking you if you reply and don’t see it post immediately. I’ll approve it when I see it and we can continue here if you have comments. And I check this daily, not once or twice a month like the Freedom Feens Facebook page.
Peace,
–Michael W. Dean
![[x]](http://freedomfeens.com/blog/wp-content/themes/mad-meg/images/rss.png "Syndicate this site using RSS")
YOU LIKE TORRENTS?
Boleh VPN virtual private network
I like Thai food. I like it so spicy that I can’t taste the Tsingtao beer I drink with it. When I am done eating, my mouth and throat are searing, my nose is running, and my stomach feels charred. My beloved green curries hurt me so much but I just love it that way. My wife laughs at me as I drool and gulp cold beer to help recover.
I guess there’s just something wrong with me… Maybe I have some deeply hidden childhood damage that makes me like spicy food. I might want to seek professional help for these masochistic urges.
I just like spicy foods. I don’t want my friends and family to try to stop me from eating Thai food and I trust no one involved in Liberty would advocate the immorality of beating up my body with spice. My right is recognized and I recognize the right of others to introduce whatever “spice” they enjoy provided it is mutually agreed upon and enjoyed.
David
“Because I know that when I’m finally hauled off by the Central Scrutinizer for free speech, the photo would be plastered all over the news and blown up 4 feet by 3 feet to show some statist jury or leftist-appointed psych panel.”
The solution to that is 1) to not care, and 2) to not let them haul you off in the first place. Anyway the question also comes up, who exactly are you worrying about what they think of you? Lots of people think ill of Carl Drega, but I’m not one of them. And Carl doesn’t care either way.
I think the whole gun/martial arts/BDSM/drugs (and insert a million other things that society claims are deviant, wrong, evil, etc, but that don’t actually include violations of the NAP or property rights) are about consciousness.
“The unexamined life is not worth living.”
Are there people who use drugs in mind-expanding ways?
Are there people who benefit from BDSM? Yes.
Are there people who benefit from martial arts? Of course.
Are there people who destroy themselves and their lives with drugs? Yup.
How about BDSM? Ever heard of financial slavery? A man giving all his money to his dom? How about if your kink went so far as to have people do permanent damage to you? What if you don’t understand: “Safe, sane, consensual”? What if your asphyxiation kink gets you killed?
What if you just have to be beaten to enjoy sexuality at all? Sure, it’s not anti-anarchist, but is it healthy? Is it something to look at? To work on?
And that is the point. Consciousness.
Anything you do consciously, with awareness, will add to your total consciousness and enable you to live that sought-for ‘life worth living’.
Anything you do to *run* or avoid consciousness, pain of what you are currently experiencing etc will do the opposite. You can become an alcoholic, an addict, you can hide your pain with shopping or martial arts, or porn, or food or virtually anything.
BDSM experiences have been super valuable for my personal healing, in a context where I was encouraged to understand and process what I was feeling. In other words, to examine what what happening why.
My limited experience with martial arts has taught me something about myself.
But if we find ourselves ‘running programs’ of whatever kind, without understanding them, without seeking to understand them…if we find ourselves doing things that take tons of time, keep us from getting what we want out of life, then it’s time to evaluate why we are doing it, what needs we are trying to fulfill, and whether they are getting met through our behavior. And sometimes, people from the outside can help us see that…”Hey! I think you are an alcoholic!”
So I think what Adam, Ben, Stefan, and you, Michael are trying to say is the same thing Henry David Thoreau said, but in a little different ways. Know thyself. Go your path in peace, and always seek to understand it and yourself. And everyone has different ideas about how to do this. And that is fine.
Ryan,
Interesting response. I haven’t yet dealt with an answer from someone who was pro-BDSM that I disagreed with.
I think Stefan and Adam were saying “Go your path in peace, unless I don’t understand it, then you need to examine that fucked up childhood you had.”
One man’s running to enlightenment is another man’s avoiding consciousness, and the difference usually comes with “judgment.”
MWD
Pingback: Freedom Feens Blog » My reply to Adam Kokesh about kink
Well, I’ll readily admit AGAIN that I’m no expert, but what exactly did I say that was incorrect? This is not a very helpful position: “Hey dumb frat boy, read some books!” I wasn’t trying to instruct people on kink and you emailed me! I love talking about things I have less knowledge of than sex even, but I don’t talk out of my ass.
Hey Adam,
Reply wouldn’t fit here, it’s here:
http://freedomfeens.com/blog/2012/09/18/my-reply-to-adam-kokesh-about-kink/
He kinda looks like that wrestler from the 80s who went by “Hillbilly Jim” http://media.screened.com/uploads/0/5125/477692-hillbilly_jim.jpg
Exactly my point, the only angry gun guy photo I ever saw that seemed funny was one of the more famous firearms photographers bayonetting something.
BDSM, eh, not my thing but I have been around it peripherally from a very young age and the behavior of mr Kokesh seems absurd.
Incidentally that photo of him with the two guns makes him look like that psycho who went barreling off into crazy town and tried to run away by climbing mt hood in Oregon a couple of years ago.
Personally I never take “angry gun guy” photos of myself. Because I know that when I’m finally hauled off by the Central Scrutinizer for free speech, the photo would be plastered all over the news and blown up 4 feet by 3 feet to show some statist jury or leftist-appointed psych panel.
MWD
Pingback: Bitcoin Swear Jar – Freedom Feens podcast
on the subject of BDSM/sexual lifestyles: isn’t the “liberty answer” the one that allows consenting adults to do whatever they want? some people simply can’t reach sexual excitement without additional forms of physical/mental stimulation (that others may find as strange or dangerous). where is it the place of anyone outside those consenting adults to decide what is right and wrong?
on the subject of this post: i appreciate the work of ALL those who forward liberty, and i try to remain on friendly terms with everyone as well (an impossible task, cause there are always people who don’t like you for one reason or another). this past year as been horrible with liberty activist on liberty activist public bickering, and it saddens me. i wish all this energy could go towards something more productive & positive. i’m not directing this little soap box speech towards you OR adam, just stating my concern with the wasted energy i see go into these heated debates that turn into personal (and emotionally trying) fights.
my best wishes for a speedy and friendly resolution
Meg, yup.
And please see my answer to Lydia above. I was typing it as you were typing your response, but it addresses why I don’t think this particular “liberty activist public bickering” is a dangerous or even bad thing.
Peace.
MWD
I agree with you Michael. We damage our own credibility when we insist upon discussing things we are not fully informed about, especially when some listeners are likely to base their beliefs on your words. It does grieve me, however, to see two great Liberty advocates feuding… nevertheless, sometimes you have to say what must be said regardless of the fallout.
Lydia. I used to think “For the sake of liberty, I can’t beef with people in the movement, even when they’re wrong wrong wrong. We’re all on the same fragile lifeboat together.”
But then I realized that liberty is NOT some leaky lifeboat. Liberty is strong enough to take it, especially when criticism is called for. If we want liberty to become absolutely mainstream, we can’t treat it like some hothouse flower.
And Adam is certainly strong enough to take it. At least he presents himself as such. He’s a strapping young lad showing off his guns (and his “guns”, i.e. muscles), like in the photo above. That is his current main publicity photo. If I had to sum up that photo in one word, of what he’s trying to project, the word would have to be “INVINCIBLE!!!!!”
Even the name of his show: “Adam Vs. The Man”…..sheesh…..The Man is a trillion trillion times more powerful than little old me.
I think it’s damaging to liberty NOT to call people out when they’re wrong wrong wrong. Otherwise we become a yesman echo chamber. Adam surrounds himself with enough of that in his daily life, it won’t pierce his soul for me to offer up some tough love to him.
And sometimes men have disagreements, and they don’t need to sip tea to settle them. Sometimes men say “fuck you” to each other. It’s not the end of liberty in any way. A lot of people seem to think any pod beef is the end of liberty as we know it. It’s not.
MWD
It’s the same principle as celebrities testifying before congress. Like Michael J Fox…. he’s plausibly an expert on Parkinson’s by now (is it Parkinson’s he has?), but he’s no expert on public policy, economics, or ethics, which are the only areas congressional action has any bearing on. Which brings up the point that equally guilty are those on the other side of the exchange, those who *accept* the advice as authoritative. It happens in the liberty movement all the time.
“The frat boy of liberty” LOL, that’s golden.
Adam should have that put on t-shirts.
Actually the mistake Adam made and the mistake Stef made can teach all of us two lessons.
1: Don’t speak with authority on things you know nothing about.
2: When busted speaking with authority about things you know nothing about, admit it and move on. Otherwise you look like a fool.
Stef learned his lesson when schooled by Michael.
But Stef failed to retain the core of the lesson and decided to pretend he is knowledgeable about martial arts. Sad thing really.
Time will tell if Adam is enough of a man to admit his ignorance and come clean on the topic. (double entendre may or may not have been intended)
Ben, yup. Another example is this: I can’t count the people I’ve heard of who are PhDs in some hard science and think that entitles them to give vast, sweeping lectures on how the country should be “run.” (And their solutions usually involve lots of government guns pointed at everyone for the “common good.”)
That’s just one example. It’s also true of most “man on the street” interviews I’ve ever seen. Which is ironic, because Adam has made a career out of conducting those interviews with statists and accurately pointing out their foibles. Yet when I point out his, he reverts to name calling.
I love the smell of pod beef in the morning. It smells like…..grade school.
MWD
Some libertarians get bitchy. Goes with the territory. Sometimes it’s just too tedious to address. Generally, though, I find the best thing for it is to put it out there in the open.
I wasn’t aware of Stef’s “learning karate is for assholes” stuff, but I looked it up. Holy shit snacks is he wrong on that….. It’s just like my discussion about BDSM with him all over again. Except karate has a lot more people willing and able to verbally stick up for it. Wow. My opinion of the man has gone way back down.
MWD